Zazen is a Balance Pose


Someone wrote me this:

So I have a question relating to proper posture. I graduated from massage therapy school about a year and a half ago. It’s taught me to be much more aware of my body, more cognizant of what’s going on.

Recently I’ve noticed some unhealthy things going on with my zazen and I was wondering if you could help me pick the lesser of two evils.

I generally sit Burmese style on a crescent shaped zafu. This has started to really make my knees and ankles hurt. Not the kind of hurt you get from sitting zazen for 30 minutes; the kind of hurt you get when you’re starting to damage a joint. It’s difficult for me to get up and walk after sitting like this.

So I’ve been trying a seiza bench so that I can keep my knees on the ground. This doesn’t hurt my knees or back too badly, but it makes my arms, wrists and hands very uncomfortable. In Burmese posture I rest my hands in the cosmic mudra on my lap. But on the bench I don’t really have a lap, just my thighs that angle away from me toward the floor. This causes my hands to be kinda pressed into my belly above my belt buckle. It makes my shoulders rotate forward, putting undue stress on my rhomboids. At the end of a sitting I’m quite sore from my upper back all the way down to my fingers. My wrists pop loudly and end up very stiff.

So I’m wondering what to do. I can sit on a higher bench, with my legs crossed but my knees off the ground. This will alleviate my upper back and arm pain since my hands can rest in my lap. Or I can sit on the bench, with my knees touching the ground, and put my hands on my thighs without making the mudra.

Is one more desirable than the other?

I answered thusly:

Hmmmmmmm….

I always have a hard time with questions like these because I’ve never had these kinds of difficulties.

The really crucial part of the zazen posture is keeping your spine straight — that is, upright. You’re not trying to make it unnaturally poker straight. It’s a balance pose in which the spine is balanced on the hips. If you’ve done Tree Pose in Yoga, that’s also a balance pose. But you’re standing rather than sitting so it is very clear when you lose balance. In a seated balance pose, you can lose balance and not fall over.

So, I would say focus on that as your criteria. The full lotus posture is recommended because for most people, that’s the best way to achieve a seated balance pose. But if this doesn’t work for you, try adjusting your posture with your main criteria being to keep the spine balanced and erect. What happens with your legs and arms is less crucial. Although, I do believe the standard pose allows for energy to move through the body is a balanced way. So I would try getting as close to that as possible.

OK?

***

This is an example of how I deal with specific questions about posture when they are asked in a specific way by specific people. Giving general posture advice is much trickier because you never know who is reading you and how they’re going to take it.

A lot of the general advice I see handed out these days about meditation and posture seems to be trying really, really, really hard to make it as user friendly and easy as possible. A lot of this advice makes it seem like you can sit any way you want to and everything will be just fine. It’s very soft and huggy and sweet.

I’m never really sure what people are going for when they present it this way. A lot of times it feels to me like they’re just trying to get butts in seats. The easier they make meditation seem, the more people will listen to them and this, in turn, makes their books sell better and gets more people in the door at their retreats.

But not everyone who presents it in this way is so mercenary. I’ve also seen teachers who are concerned that students not injure themselves. Like me, they have no way of knowing who might be reading what they write or watching their YouTube videos and suchlike. There’s always the chance that someone out there in Internet Land or Book Reader Land or wherever either has some serious issue with their knees and legs or is just so gung-ho they’re gonna force themselves into a posture they’re not ready for. Rather than risk encouraging such people to do themselves harm, they tell them that sitting in chairs is also fine.

I struggle with this. I know for a fact and through my own personal experience that the traditional posture is critcal to zazen practice. I’ve also seen a number of people who truly cannot get into that posture but want to do zazen anyway. In my experience, these people always — always — find a way to either do what’s necessary to prepare their bodies for the correct posture or, if that’s not possible, to find some reasonable compromise. Will they get enlightened this way? Beats me! But I think some of them will find what they’re looking for. They have as much chance of that as anyone else.

On the other hand, if they’re not so keen on zazen in the first place they just give it up.

Zazen practice requires a certain degree of commitment. It’s just like anything else worth doing. I try to deal with this the way I’d deal with someone who wanted instructions on how to play bass.

If they had all their fingers, I’d show them the standard method for playing bass and tell them to practice a lot. If they had just one finger on their left hand (and they were right handed) but they were very committed to playing bass in spite of this, I’d try to work with them to find a way to play. Django Reinhardt was a brilliant guitarist who could only use two of the fingers on his left hand. He was committed and found a way.

If, on the other hand, I had a student who had all his fingers but just didn’t want to use them or to practice regularly, I’d tell him to get another teacher. I might even tell him he’s not going to get very far with that attitude. Maybe that’s not what he wants to hear. Maybe he won’t like me for saying that. But hearing it might do him a bit of good.

If I were writing a standard book on bass playing I would tend to pitch it for people with all their fingers who were willing to practice. I’d tell them their fingers might hurt or even bleed a little at first, but that this would go away with continued practice. I’d encourage them not to give up just because it hurts at first. I’d tell them the pain was worthwhile. Because it was for me.

I wouldn’t use up a lot of space in that book dealing with the problems of playing bass with one finger. I would figure that people with special needs like that would find their own way to either make what I wrote work for them, or find someone who could help them individually.

This is how I feel about zazen practice. I think that the vast majority of people can do the standard pose. Some may need to work at it. Others can do it right away. But there’s a reason that pose has been standard for 2,500 years. It is not arbitrary. It is worth working at, if that’s what it takes. I don’t tell the general public it’s fine to use chairs because I don’t think that helps anyone very much. It only encourages people who don’t want to bother with the traditional posture not to work at it. I figure those who actually need to use chairs will find their own way just like a guy who really wants to play bass but only has one finger.

I worked at the posture. It hurt. But it was worthwhile. I’m glad I put in the effort and I’m glad I had a teacher who pushed me to do so, who saw that I could do the posture if I tried.

AND AGAIN, FOR ANYONE WHO PLANS TO YELL AT ME ABOUT FULL LOTUS — THERE ARE TRADITIONAL POSTURES OTHER THAN THE FULL LOTUS, SUCH AS HALF LOTUS AND BURMESE STYLE. SO WHEN I TALK ABOUT THE TRADITIONAL POSTURE I AM NOT TALKING EXCLUSIVELY ABOUT FULL LOTUS.

(Sorry for yelling, but whenever I say anything about the traditional posture I get a dozen commenters screaming bloody murder about full lotus.)

200 Responses

Page 1 of 4
  1. Anonymous
    Anonymous April 5, 2012 at 9:26 am |

    Brad sed:
    AND AGAIN, FOR ANYONE THOSE WHO PLANS TO YELL AT ME ABOUT FULL LOTUS — THERE ARE TRADITIONAL POSTURES OTHER THAN THE FULL LOTUS, SUCH AS HALF LOTUS AND BURMESE STYLE. SO WHEN I TALK ABOUT THE TRADITIONAL POSTURE I AM NOT TALKING EXCLUSIVELY ABOUT FULL LOTUS.

    No one asked you about the above.
    I'm just wanting you to clarify what you mean when you say "Sitting in a chair is NOT zazen".

  2. Jinzang
    Jinzang April 5, 2012 at 9:31 am |

    Some people just don't give up, do they?

  3. Brad Warner
    Brad Warner April 5, 2012 at 9:33 am |

    No they don't.

    But I think I've said all I want to about this. At least for now.

  4. Anonymous
    Anonymous April 5, 2012 at 9:34 am |

    Here is a reason for you, if you truly wish for one.

    I know a practitioner who broke his neck skiing. It was a bad cervical break, lost all movement in his legs with limited movement in his hand that he uses to operate his chair. He wasn't one of the "lucky" ones who cannot feel his limbs… to him, his nerves are still firing, and it makes him feel like he is burning. That his limbs are on fire… 24/7. Day and night.

    He will NEVER… EVER be able to sit with his knees on the floor.
    He will NEVER… EVER be able to sit erect, he looks perpetually slumped…
    He cannot even put his hands in the Cosmic Mudra.

    But the man sits like his life depended on it – and sits more full week sesshins than you probably do in a year.

    Now the Question!

    Is he doing Zazen? Or is he just wasting his time because he cannot control his body to the point where he can wrench his legs into a certain position on the floor>

  5. Anonymous
    Anonymous April 5, 2012 at 9:37 am |

    If you want to know the reason I am pressing you Brad, that was it.

  6. Brad Warner
    Brad Warner April 5, 2012 at 9:38 am |

    I know a practitioner who broke his neck skiing. It was a bad cervical break, lost all movement in his legs with limited movement in his hand that he uses to operate his chair. He wasn't one of the "lucky" ones who cannot feel his limbs… to him, his nerves are still firing, and it makes him feel like he is burning. That his limbs are on fire… 24/7. Day and night.

    He will NEVER… EVER be able to sit with his knees on the floor.
    He will NEVER… EVER be able to sit erect, he looks perpetually slumped…
    He cannot even put his hands in the Cosmic Mudra.

    But the man sits like his life depended on it – and sits more full week sesshins than you probably do in a year.

    Now the Question!

    Is he doing Zazen? Or is he just wasting his time because he cannot control his body to the point where he can wrench his legs into a certain position on the floor

    Of course he's doing zazen.

    Sheesh. I've already made that abundantly clear.

    Enough already.

  7. the truth hurts
    the truth hurts April 5, 2012 at 9:39 am |

    I don't have any physical disabilities (thankfully), and despite trying and trying and trying and trying for years, I have never gotten any closer to even being able to sit in half-lotus or burmese position. My knees are always up in the air, and no matter how hard I press them down, they bounce back up.

    I've still been trying to sit in the correct way, despite making no progress. Why? Because if full lotus is the correct way, then it's the correct way. If I don't get into that pose, I'm not doing zazen.

    If someone's not tall enough to dunk a basketball, and they never will be tall enough, then they never will dunk the basketball. Too bad for them. They will never know what that feels like. You can say, "Well, standing on a chair and jumping up to dunk kind of feels like that," but that's nonsense. It isn't the same thing. Some experiences are simply not available to all people. Zazen may be one of them.

    I will never know what it is like to actually do zazen, no matter how much I sit.

  8. Anonymous
    Anonymous April 5, 2012 at 9:40 am |

    And no Jinzang, I don't give up.

  9. Anonymous
    Anonymous April 5, 2012 at 9:43 am |

    DING DING DING WE HAVE A WINNER FOLKS!

    Brad sed:
    Of course he's doing zazen.

    Sheesh. I've already made that abundantly clear.

    Enough already.

    Thank you Brad, That was all I needed to hear, I am done grilling you now.
    Topic is dropped.

    Sitting in a chair *IS* zazen.

  10. Jinzang
    Jinzang April 5, 2012 at 9:44 am |

    Priest Jianyuan of Tan once accompanied his teacher, Daowu, on a condolence call to a family funeral. When they arrived, he tapped the coffin and said, “Is this life, or is this death?”
    Daowu said, “I won’t say life, I won’t say death.”
    Jianyuan said, “Why won’t you say?”
    Daowu said, “I won’t say, I won’t say.”
    On their way back Jianyuan said, “You should say it quickly for me, teacher, or I will hit you.”
    Daowu said, “Hit me if you will, but I will not say.” Jianyuan hit him.
    After returning to the monastery Daowu said to Jianyuan, “You should take leave for a while; I’m afraid if the head monk finds out about this he will make trouble for you.”
    After Daowu passed away, Jianyuan went to see Daowu’s successor Shishuang, told him the story, and asked for guidance. Shishuang said, “I won’t say life, I won’t say death.”
    Jianyuan said, “Why won’t you say it?”
    Shishuang said, “I won’t say, I won’t say.” Jianyuan immediately realized it.

  11. Jinzang
    Jinzang April 5, 2012 at 9:46 am |

    And no Jinzang, I don't give up.

    why not?

  12. anon #108
    anon #108 April 5, 2012 at 9:54 am |

    FWIW Anonymous, I get why you pushed and pushed. I applaud the fact that you didn't give up and that, responding to Brad's various responses, you finally reduced your argument to one (kind of) essential question.

    So thanks for the questions, and thanks to Brad for the answers. Good, albeit somewhat tetchy, stuff.

  13. Kobutsu
    Kobutsu April 5, 2012 at 10:00 am |

    I began sitting full lotus 44 years ago… I've been sitting Burmese now for about 38 years. Perhaps ten years ago I started having knee trouble, had surgery on my left knee but it offered no improvement. Now I am a hair's breath away from a knee replacement, the only thing holding it at bay right now is an orthopedic knee brace. I can still crank into Burmese but I know that doing so slowly contributes to the thinning of the inner porting of the meniscus. It strikes me that there are just certain body-types who are unsuited for sitting cross legged on the floor. Being an Irish "fire hydrant" type is perhaps one such. Still, I have no regrets… in Zazen, everything is about posture, posture, posture!

  14. anon #108
    anon #108 April 5, 2012 at 10:03 am |

    Hmm…Just seen your post @9.43am – –

    You wrote: DING DING DING WE HAVE A WINNER FOLKS! …

    Sitting in a chair *IS* zazen.

    Brad had wrote: Of course he's doing zazen.

    Anyway…

    Captcha = steredg knowass

  15. Kyoku
    Kyoku April 5, 2012 at 10:24 am |

    I started having knee trouble a while ago. A couple of times I ended up sitting in a chair. I found that I had some pride issues with this. I'd worked hard at being able to sit Burmese comfortably, and now I was sitting in a chair like some, um, chair-sitting person! So that was an interesting thing to encounter.
    Now I'm back to Burmese but with cushions supporting my knees. It ain't pretty, but it beats the chair. The chair is no picnic: sore back etc.. I certainly prefer Burmese even if I do have to have this great wall of cushions on either side supporting my knees. And I can focus on that good old straight back and head held high.

  16. Anonymous
    Anonymous April 5, 2012 at 10:27 am |
  17. Jinzang
    Jinzang April 5, 2012 at 10:28 am |

    If I haven't destroyed any good will I might have, here's my advice, Anonymous.

    First, are you sitting with a group. If so, it's *far* better to take their advice than anything I might say here, because they can see you, know you, etc.

    Here's the standard spiel I give when new people come to our group. The most important point is to sit witha straight, unsupported back is a posture you can forget because it is not too painful and not precarious. When you sit, you need to have your butt higher than your knees, otherwise you won't have proper balance. This means the cushion is the proper height. The firm square cushion (gomden) works best for people who are big or knees rise up high. Try "test driving" the cushion if you can. If your knees stick up, try leaving your legs uncrossed and unsupported. Don't do what I have seen some do, stuff cushions under each knee. Leaving your legs unsupported will let gravity to gradually stretch the muscles in your legs, so that they lower. Have Burmese posture as you first goal, then you can try for "quarter lotus" (foot on calf) and progress from there.

  18. Tom Swiss
    Tom Swiss April 5, 2012 at 10:34 am |

    "Sitting in a chair *IS* zazen."

    For that guy, yes.

    In the legends of my karate school, there is a tale of a guy who broke his leg shortly before his black belt promotion. Rather than postponing the test, for the sparring portion they put him in a wheeled office chair, with someone behind to push him around, and had him fight from there.

    (Since he couldn't back up, this was perhaps a harder test than people who could stand.)

    Is sitting in a chair karate? For that guy, at that moment, it was. For some people in wheelchairs, it will always be. Does that imply any random person sitting in a chair is doing karate? No.

  19. Bodhidharma's Beard
    Bodhidharma's Beard April 5, 2012 at 11:11 am |

    "Although, I do believe the standard pose allows for energy to move through the body in a balanced way." – Brad Warner

    What form of energy?
    Thermal?
    Kinetic?
    Chemical?
    Magnetic?
    Electrical?
    Electrochemical?
    Electromagnetic?
    Elastic?
    Nuclear?
    Sound?
    Orgone?

    How is a "balanced way" of energy movement different from an unbalanced way?

    What verifiable evidence can you present to support your belief?

  20. Daniel
    Daniel April 5, 2012 at 11:18 am |

    Brad said: "A lot of the general advice I see handed out these days about meditation and posture seems to be trying really, really, really hard to make it as user friendly and easy as possible. A lot of this advice makes it seem like you can sit any way you want to and everything will be just fine. It's very soft and huggy and sweet.

    I'm never really sure what people are going for when they present it this way."

    Brad what these people like me are going for is that we've been doing this stuff long enough to realize that it doesn't matter if you sit in full lotus posture or in seiza or whatever. Truth is you just got used to this because you did it this way for a long time. Your brain remembers that.

    But for someone who just starts it doesn't matter. I always feel sorry for you when I read such rather strict rules you write about. I understand well that you have to do this to distinguish "Soto-Zen" from the many other schools of mindfulnes-meditation. But this way you'll always have to find weird reasons for that posture.

    Fact is that any advanced meditator can be put lying in a magnetic resonance imaging machine and you can see that they get into "meditation" (lots of gamma activity etc) quite easily.

    You never did "Zazen" sitting in a train or plane?! Or walking?! Your "meditation" is limited to the hour or something you sit on the ground?! Cmon, now laugh and have a look a the truth! 🙂

    It's a dogma. Get over it. You're doing the same mistake most religions/traditions do…instead get real and take a honest look at why "zazen" works!

    Daniel

  21. anon #108
    anon #108 April 5, 2012 at 11:41 am |

    This comment has been removed by the author.

  22. anon #108
    anon #108 April 5, 2012 at 11:44 am |

    But Daniel,

    What if zazen – the zazen that Brad is talking about – is not just a mental activity whose effectiveness can be assessed by analysing what your brain and its waves are doing "(lots of gamma activity etc)", but is an activity done with and by all of you?

  23. anon #108
    anon #108 April 5, 2012 at 11:49 am |

    …Like bass playing or karate?

  24. mike papas
    mike papas April 5, 2012 at 11:56 am |

    Brad, I think your response was good. Sometimes I think of Zen as being a practice of trying to do the impossible. Like sit perfectly still, or have a perfectly clear mind. We can do these things for a while but they are not really possible to "attain." Yet, we just do our best, and there is a lot of value in that. Even if we are screwing up in some major way I think we still grow in compassion and wisdom by walking the path as best we can. I also believe a lot of the rigorous, difficult, painful ( and valuable ) practice of traditional Zen was just perfect for a monastery full of 16 – 30 year old Japanese guys.Here in the USA we have much more diverse sangha communities.

  25. Mysterion
    Mysterion April 5, 2012 at 12:01 pm |

    Yep…

    Exercise – even isometric exercise – and diet.

    Buddha was no fat man. First, give up the myth that he was fat.

    Second, give up the myth of "diet soda." It actually enhances obesity. Even the republicans get this.

    TAXILA: "Taxila is the center of the famous Gandhara civilization that flourished here some two thousand years ago. Located south of the river Indus, Taxila is only about 30 kilometers from Rawalpindi, a little off the main highway. Steeped deep in history, the excavations at Taxila take you back 2,500 years into the world of Buddha, Alexander, Ashoka and of course the emperor Kanishka whose imprints are visible to this day."

    Statue of starving Buddha – 200 BCE

    If you are even 35 pounds overweight, work on that ALONG WITH settling in on a Zafu.

    Or don't.

    It makes no difference to me – or anyone else than YOU.

  26. Anonymous
    Anonymous April 5, 2012 at 12:28 pm |

    As a point of order…
    When I said: "Ding ding ding we have a winner folks!" it was not a declaration of victory over Brad. It was a poorly conceived way of declaring that Brad had played the final, winning move.

    (It was another one of the many reminders that my particular sense of humor does not translate well into straight text…)

  27. boubi
    boubi April 5, 2012 at 12:34 pm |

    Hi Brad

    You just said "standard pose allows for energy to move through the body ".

    Very interesting.

    Could you tell something more about it?

  28. Harry
    Harry April 5, 2012 at 12:34 pm |

    There is certainly a lot of 'magical thinking' going on in zen about zazen as far as I can see.

    Master Nishijima's ANS theory, whether it was the intention or not, can be and has been seen as a sort of rational excuse for the magic thought that sitting cross legged for an hour a day will make us all better and balanced eventually… and I think there actually is a truth in that, but it's not the whole truth (if we are observing buddhist tradition, and certainly Master Dogen's records, that is), and it is very restrictive to assume it is the whole truth (just as one might assume that there is one 'true god', one 'true way', one 'true posture', one 'true buddhism' or other such ideas that we make up in our littel heads).

    This can be contrasted to Master Dogen's approach which was to sit 'dropping off body and mind' (including the 'balanced' body and mind) and bring the experience to bear creatively and insightfully on questions such as the nature of self, time, buddhist theory, existence, thought, words etc etc etc…

    The problem with the 'just sitting is enlightenment' fallacy as merely an object of redundant belief/faith is that:

    1. It's too easy, and would not likely have us make the effort of bringing our practice to bear on all aspects of ourselves and all aspects of our existence and…

    2. It's a very self defeating sort of assumption/ belief in that it negates effort other than just sitting… and it panders to the age-old imbalance towards anti-intellectualism and group un-think in zen… can make zen zombies/ vacant 'yes men' in other words.

    The fallacy has also been used as a sort of materialist denial of realisation/enlightenment which is particularly lamentable. It devalues the insight that is one of the main features of Buddhism. The term 'enlightenment' is undoubtedly problematic given the nature of our habitual striving after ideas and goals, but to respond to that situation with just a sort of vacant blanket denial really does not seem to be a clever response, and it was certainly not Master Dogen's response, nor the response of countless other Buddhist ancestors.

    Regards,

    Harry.

  29. Colin
    Colin April 5, 2012 at 12:38 pm |

    Anon,

    read comment above from Tom Swiss and get real, ye Teen Jundo. Ah'm sure ye haven't practiced zazen a bit, ye twat. Ah bet yir around 14 years old and ye live in yir parent's basement. Get real and grow up. Go out playing fitba and forget this stupid Zen shite.

    And try tae understand this: zazen in chair IS NOT zazen, unless a person can't practice zazen elsewhere.

    And Harry: piss off, ye arrogant cunt who is trying tae play smart. Ye don't know a shite of yir aunt's arse.

  30. Anonymous
    Anonymous April 5, 2012 at 12:56 pm |

    Brad, I find that because of my body type the easiest position for me to meditate in is laying down with a small cushion under my head. I have tried and tried to "sit" in a chair but because of stability issues I have found that position impossible even after years of trying. My question to you is, Is laying down with a small cushion under my head Zazen? Thank you.

  31. GHOST
    GHOST April 5, 2012 at 1:05 pm |

    Brad, I am disembodied spirit. I have no corporeal form or any physical substance whatsoever. If I were to "possess" a Zen practitioner who was using a seiza bench, would that be correct? Or should I only haunt/possess someone in full lotus?

  32. Bob
    Bob April 5, 2012 at 1:25 pm |

    Kobutsu Malone.. I remember you from efnet #Tibet back in the day. Damn, it's a small internet..

  33. Rhysman
    Rhysman April 5, 2012 at 1:49 pm |

    All I can say is:

    Holy atomic bomb Batman!!!

    Please correct me if I'm wrong but…
    Hui-neng was enlightened just by hearing the heart sutra once.

    I think enlightenment comes when it comes. To quote Brad "Sit Down and Shut Up"

  34. Rhysman
    Rhysman April 5, 2012 at 1:52 pm |

    One more question for Brad,

    Where did you get the pic of the hot chick with the dreads and ankle tat?

  35. Anonymous
    Anonymous April 5, 2012 at 1:58 pm |

    Rhysman, That's one of Brad's Suicide Girls. He's a dog.

  36. Jeepers Reekers
    Jeepers Reekers April 5, 2012 at 2:05 pm |

    Enlightenment comes from turning on the light in yet another self-loathing gay republican's closet.

  37. gniz
    gniz April 5, 2012 at 2:38 pm |

    I like Brad's newest post. He's slowly clearing up the miscommunication…

    Some of his examples, and others' examples, make a good point about how differing circumstances create different answers.

    However, the logic–if you follow it all the way down–leads to this. You don't NEED any particular position to do what needs doing.

    Zazen is not separate from life, and what you "attain" when in that position is not something unique to it. Just like doing downward dog is not more "healthy" than jumping jacks.

    I can enjoy playing guitar with two fingers, or some people listen to music even if they're deaf–through vibrations.

    The notion that there is only one position to accomodate enlightenment or any other so-called spiritual attainment is dogma at best and insanity at worst.

    So do it if it works for you, but please–spare me the b.s. that only sitting zazen can you "get it."

  38. Mysterion
    Mysterion April 5, 2012 at 3:43 pm |

    This comment has been removed by the author.

  39. Anonymous
    Anonymous April 5, 2012 at 4:23 pm |

    zazen is a placebo
    after practicing 12/30 year you will gain a miraculous thing: your very ordinary life

  40. Jinzang
    Jinzang April 5, 2012 at 4:34 pm |

    Please correct me if I'm wrong but…Hui-neng was enlightened just by hearing the heart sutra once.

    It was the Diamond Cutter Sutra.

  41. Anonymous
    Anonymous April 5, 2012 at 5:04 pm |

    Anon sed:
    "Brad, I find that because of my body type the easiest position for me to meditate in is laying down with a small cushion under my head. I have tried and tried to "sit" in a chair but because of stability issues I have found that position impossible even after years of trying. My question to you is, Is laying down with a small cushion under my head Zazen? Thank you.

    I think I smell a troll… but I will throw my 2 cents in.

    It's funny, but me and Brad don't differ too much really when you get down to it.
    We both agree that lotus is by far, bar none, the most stable position for zazen – followed by half-lotus, followed by Burmese, followed by seiza, and the least stable is a chair.

    (Let's face it, if you fall asleep, you have a lot farther to go before your head hits the ground…)

    I have actually sat with a group affiliated with the Rochester Korean Zen folks, where this one lady would sit one period in a chair… and in the next would roll out this extra long zabuton and do the next period lying down.
    (I heard snoring on more than one occasion.)
    Now is doing zazen while lying down zazen…?
    Sure – if you are doing zazen.
    If you are sleeping…? Not so much.

    Conversely, is doing zazen while in a lotus where your feet are so high on your hips that you can scratch your ears with your toes zazen…?
    Sure – if you are doing zazen.
    But if you are asleep in the lotus…? Not so much.

    As far as sitting in a chair… There *IS* a difference between "sitting in a chair" and "SITTING in a CHAIR" – your body's position is a reflection of what is going on in the mind… I've seen dudes with impressive lotus legs sitting rock solid, but with the thumbs of their mudra both sticking straight up in the air like antennae – they were probably having a Big Titty Makyo…

    Time is the true test however – this practice is the endeavor of a lifetime, not 2 weekends out of the year…
    If you are doing what works for you, and you are truly doing your best, then I wouldn't be too worried.

  42. Mark Foote
    Mark Foote April 5, 2012 at 5:36 pm |

    The lotus is a posture that allows feeling for the pivots of the sacrum.

    These gentleman have the balls of their feet on the sacrum, no doubt they are breathing to their heals being true men- er, gods.

    These gals are perched on the ligaments that tie the sacrum to the pelvis, you can bet they are giving them a good stretch!

    uh-oh, the curse of Khru if I write this sentence

  43. Jinzang
    Jinzang April 5, 2012 at 6:01 pm |

    "Although, I do believe the standard pose allows for energy to move through the body in a balanced way." – Brad Warner

    What form of energy?

    It's called prana in Sanskrit, rlung in Tibetan.

    How is a "balanced way" of energy movement different from an unbalanced way?

    There are different, pathological, ways the energy can be unbalanced. When balanced, the energy settles in the navel chakra.

    What verifiable evidence can you present to support your belief?

    Whenever I hear the word verifiable, I think here is another person that has not heard positivism has been dead for the past 50 years.

  44. Spider from Goodfellas
    Spider from Goodfellas April 5, 2012 at 7:13 pm |

    I remember seeing Brad on a YouTube video talking about whether Buddhists "jack off."

    Brad's response, and I'm paraphrasing a VERY tiny bit here, was that "I jack off daily and I sometimes do it while on my cushion, leading to a cumshot while sitting zazen."

    Unless Brad jacks off while in the lotus, I'm thinking that his advice is uneven and inconsistent.

  45. Sylvia
    Sylvia April 5, 2012 at 7:22 pm |

    "Although, I do believe the standard pose allows for energy to move through the body in a balanced way." – Brad Warner

    Braaaad.. Can you give an example of what that could possibly mean? Energy moving through the body in a balanced way?? I'm sorry but that sentence is really creepy.

  46. Daniel
    Daniel April 5, 2012 at 10:25 pm |

    I think we can all agree that different circumstances dictate what a person is and is not capable of.
    I think that zazen requires us to do the best that we possibly can with what we have. Nothing more. Nothing less.

  47. proulx michel
    proulx michel April 6, 2012 at 1:51 am |

    Colin said

    And Harry: piss off, ye arrogant cunt who is trying tae play smart. Ye don't know a shite of yir aunt's arse.

    That's a tad harsh on poor Harry. His
    "The problem with the 'just sitting is enlightenment' fallacy (…) is that:
    1. It's too easy (…)
    2. It (…) negates effort other than just sitting… and it panders to the age-old imbalance towards anti-intellectualism and group un-think in zen… can make zen zombies/ vacant 'yes men' in other words.

    The fallacy (…) devalues the insight that is one of the main features of Buddhism."

    has quite a good lot of good sense in it. What I observe, however, is that the words of anyone (here Nishijima or Brad) taken out of context tend to be subject to a lot of criticism. Nevertheless, you shall observe that Brad, in his first book, tells of an anecdote ("Eating a tangerine is real enlightenment") which shows that things are not so clean cut.

    The problem with the E word is that, like so many other things, as long as you expect it, it never comes ("A watched pot never boils").

    Therefore, the recourse to some negation of it doesn't seem so foolish…

  48. Bodhidharma's Beard
    Bodhidharma's Beard April 6, 2012 at 4:43 am |

    "It's called prana in Sanskrit, rlung in Tibetan."
    "There are different, pathological, ways the energy can be unbalanced. When balanced, the energy settles in the navel chakra."
    "Whenever I hear the word verifiable, I think here is another person that has not heard positivism has been dead for the past 50 years." – Jinzang

    Evidence that is not verifiable is not really evidence. Your explanations don't actually explain anything. They only beg more questions.

  49. Anonymous
    Anonymous April 6, 2012 at 5:27 am |

    Learn to stand on one toe!

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