Administribulations

We’re getting recurring problems with the MySQL server for the site, which seems to be going up and down for yet-to-be-determined reasons.

Cultivate patience; I’m working on trying to figure out what the issue is, but the ultimate resolution is to move the site to better hosting (which I’m also working on…)

Sorry For The Inconvenience.

93 Responses

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  1. Mark Foote
    Mark Foote July 21, 2013 at 8:16 pm | |

    “Proprioception, as well as all all concepts inc. “body” & “mind” are rendered moot.”

    Ok, let’s talk equalibrioception then, as in the article on the vestibular sense, the illusion of moving backwards in a railcar when in reality the train on the adjacent track is moving forward, Dogen’s illusion of the shore moving when in fact it’s the boat, and from the Denkoroku tonight:

    “If you realize this state, you will not only have no further doubt about your eternal real self; you will also see through and cut through all the Buddhas and Zen masters, you will meet Yaoshan and Baizhang and see eye to eye with Yunyan and Daowu.

    How can we convey this principle?

    ‘Without moving, the solitary boat
    sails ahead in the moonlight;
    As you look around, the reeds on the ancient bank
    have never moved.” (#38)

    The illusion of the reeds moving, similar to Dogen’s analogy. That the boat doesn’t move while sailing ahead in the moonlight, like me last night letting go to the realization of single-pointedness of mind in the movement of breath, not dancing while in full motion…

    people looked at me funny, and sometimes I looked back.

  2. buddy
    buddy July 21, 2013 at 11:40 pm | |

    I think there are few people as enamoured of their own Voidness as Ken Wilber.

  3. buddy
    buddy July 21, 2013 at 11:47 pm | |

    It seems that, if a person were truly manifesting emptiness, they would be more concerned with the wonders and horrors of the world in front of them, than in trumpeting their own absence of self.

  4. Mumbles
    Mumbles July 22, 2013 at 8:55 am | |

    I think you may be getting your Bodhisattvas and Mahasiddhas mixed up there Buddy.

  5. Fred
    Fred July 22, 2013 at 12:16 pm | |

    “It seems that, if a person were truly manifesting emptiness, they would be more concerned with the wonders and horrors of the world in front of them, than in trumpeting their own absence of self.”

    The horrors of the world? People have been slaughtering each other for
    thousands of years, Buddy. And they will be slaughtering each other for
    another thousand years in the name of religion or country.

  6. buddy
    buddy July 22, 2013 at 12:39 pm | |

    Mumbles, not according to Wiki: ‘A mahasiddha is a bodhisattva, someone who can enter nirvana whenever they want, but instead choose to stay in samsara to help others.’

    Fred, uh huh. And a truly awakened person will grieve it and do all they can to stop it, fruitless as their efforts may be.

  7. Fred
    Fred July 22, 2013 at 1:15 pm | |

    Go for it.

  8. Fred
    Fred July 22, 2013 at 1:31 pm | |

    “Mumbles, not according to Wiki: ‘A mahasiddha is a bodhisattva, someone who can enter nirvana whenever they want, but instead choose to stay in samsara to help others.’

    When the bottom of the bucket falls out, do you think that there is some
    arbitrary ” someone ” that can stay in ” samsara ” whatever that is?

    Hi, I’m Bob Samsara and I’m here to help ” you “. Hand over your self, and make
    it snappy.

  9. buddy
    buddy July 22, 2013 at 1:31 pm | |

    Not being ‘a truly awakened person’, I’m not sure exactly how I’d go about it. But I’m pretty certain that it’s a preferable direction to head for than the closed-loop of a Zen zombie.

  10. Fred
    Fred July 22, 2013 at 1:37 pm | |

    As for whether the boat or the shoreline is moving, it’s a metaphor for realization

    Nothing has fundamentally changed because the self was an illusion all along

  11. buddy
    buddy July 22, 2013 at 1:43 pm | |

    Something that has influenced my ideas of compassion. http://www.zenmontreal.ca/en/teacher/wholebodyhandseyes.htm

  12. Fred
    Fred July 22, 2013 at 1:45 pm | |

    ” I’m not sure exactly how I’d go about it. But I’m pretty certain that it’s a preferable direction to head for”

    So you’re going to head for somewhere not exactly sure?

    How will you know when you get there?

    Watch out for the closed-loop Zen zombies

  13. buddy
    buddy July 22, 2013 at 2:05 pm | |

    Maybe in your infinite, No-Self-upon-the-Absolute wisdom, Fred, you can tell me where to go. It would be refreshing to have an actual dialogue with these comments instead of a handful of disgruntled middle-aged men (hiya Mumbles!)dispensing snide cutdowns from their smug perches. There’s a chance that 100 foot pole you’re sitting on, Fred, has gone up your ass a fair ways.

  14. Wedged
    Wedged July 22, 2013 at 3:01 pm | |

    Must…read…new post…going through withdrawal. Dude, i’m only addicted to a few internet things. email, headlines and HCZ…! Why not have banners? How does someone like Perez Hilton’s blog bring in millions in advertising? Who the hell looks at online advertising? Why the hell not have banners then? Why do i know who Perez Hilton is? Sometimes the worry of selling out or maybe that Dogen wouldn’t have done it goes too far, who cares. Get some banners…If i’m going through HCZ withdrawals then others are, too. How much is Facebook worth again? There are about 10, 000, 000 other decent sites i could be addicted to. The fact that this is the one i’m hooked on speaks to Brad’s appeal. This site brings a lot of traffic, he’d get decent money from banners.

    Get the message out…i swear to god every single person i know has anxiety. They are unhappy…they need to sit, but i can’t tell them that. Brad’s spin can deliver to the masses. That new book needs to sell like a mother f*cker. I feel like the guy who stumbled accross the Beatles. What was his name? I just want to exploit, i mean…i just want to get Brad’s stuff out there, man. The coffee mugs and lunch boxes can come later. Who cares if others suffer…worry about yourself. Yes, i know…but it saved me and i can’t help but want to save others. I was with a group of people yesterday having a BBQ in the july sun, kids swimming, very simple summer day and i kept looking around and i was on cloud 9 while others were on their iphones. Why am i the lucky one who knows that looking at a wall bored out of my f*cking mind for 1 hour a day will also allow you to not want your iphone?

    Or, maybe i’m just a Zen nerd…”but i’m not the only one…”

    Get the new book, it’s f*cking awesome…the last chapter, ties it together.

  15. Fred
    Fred July 22, 2013 at 3:41 pm | |

    Buddy, I can see how your compassion is reflected in what you posted:

    “”Like the moon reflected in the water…” Everything is the Dharmakaya manifesting form in accordance with beings: this computer, this table this window…. Everything is like the moon reflected in the water. It is like an ass looking at a well; if an ass looks at a well, all that the ass is going to see is himself; all that you ever know is yourself.

    And then the master says, “You have said quite a lot but you’ve only said eighty percent. And the monk said, “Well what do you say master?” And the master said, “It’s like the well looking at the ass.”

  16. Mark Foote
    Mark Foote July 22, 2013 at 4:00 pm | |

    “Toyota Yaris Buddy”, yuck yuck! :)

    “the closed-loop of a Zen zombie”- I tol’ you so, Bela Lugosi and the white (zen) zombies!

    Alright, then, let’s get down to proprioception:

    “Introduction

    When the entire body is the eye, while seeing you do not see. When the entire body is the ear, while hearing you do not hear. When the entire body is the mouth, while speaking you do not speak. When the entire body is the mind, when thinking you do not think.”

  17. buddy
    buddy July 22, 2013 at 4:01 pm | |

    No Fred, it’s more like you’re a crick in my neck and I’m just adjusting the pillow.

  18. Mark Foote
    Mark Foote July 22, 2013 at 4:09 pm | |

    And let’s not forget equalibrioception:

    ‘Putting aside the entire body, if there are no eyes, how do you see? If there are no ears, how do you hear? If there is no mouth, how do you speak? If there is no mind, how do you think? If you can unfold a single pathway, you are a fellow student with the ancient Buddhas. However, putting studying aside for the moment, with whom should you study Zen?’

    or maybe both:

    ‘Case

    Ungan asked Dogo, “What use does the great Bodhisattva of Compassion make of all those hands and eyes?” Dogo said, “It is like a person straightening the pillow with outstretched hands in the middle of the night.” Ungan said, “I have understood.” Dogo said, “How do you understand?” Ungan said, “All over the whole body is hands and eyes.” Dogo said, “You have had your say, but you have only given eight tenth of the truth.” Ungan said, “How would you put it?” Dogo said, “Throughout the whole body is hands and eyes.”‘

    Watching “Tom Petty Part 2″ the DVD, I learn that after 9/11 a list was published of songs that shouldn’t be played by radio stations in order to discourage terrorism, and included on that list (which presumably was distributed to radio stations for voluntary compliance?) was John Lennon’s “imagine”.

  19. Mark Foote
    Mark Foote July 22, 2013 at 4:18 pm | |

    “Ayres told us a long time ago that, after air to breathe, postural security is our next most urgent priority; without postural security none of us is going to focus our attention on reading a magazine, or on listening carefully to a radio broadcast, or on carrying out a complex fine motor task like sewing or writing. First we save ourselves from falling, or reorganize our position to get more secure
    and physically comfortable, and then we do our reading or listening or sewing.

    …Postural and gravitational security, and a good sense of equilibrium, both depend upon the effective development and functioning of three different but interdependent sensory
    systems (an “Equilibrium Triad”), namely the vision sense, the Vestibular sense, and the combined tactile/proprioceptive senses.” (from the afore-linked article on the vestibular sense, or equalibrioception)

    Now when body and mind are dropped, where I am has no postural and gravitational security while providing perfect postural and gravitational security.

    Look, ma, zazen zombie walking around…

  20. Fred
    Fred July 22, 2013 at 4:22 pm | |
  21. Fred
    Fred July 22, 2013 at 4:34 pm | |

    I’m a Zazen Zombie
    I got no proprioceptions
    To help me realize
    I’m a Zazen Zombie
    Throughout the whole
    body is hands and eyes

  22. Mumbles
    Mumbles July 22, 2013 at 4:44 pm | |

    Buddy if my comment sounded condescending I sincerely apologize.

    A cursory look at “Mahasiddha” at wikipedia has no mention that I can see about a Mahasiddha also being a Bodhisattva, but maybe you can show me if you want to? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahasiddha

    It’s not that important, I was only making a point that a Bodhisattva such as Avalokiteshvara traditionally has unlimited compassion for the world and all its creatures, kind of what you were saying you expect from an “enlightened” one, while a Mahasiddha (or other crazy wise “enlightened” adept from a pick-your-own tradition), while possibly having unlimited compassion for everyone too, is typically unconcerned about “right or wrong” and may even (in the literature) disregard popular notions of “right and wrong” and actually harm someone in order for a chain of events to occur that eventually have an outcome that is desirable, or not, with some underlying aim or intention.

    Namaste.

  23. Mumbles
    Mumbles July 22, 2013 at 4:45 pm | |

    and dude…I’m not “middle-aged” the term is “timeless.” LOL

  24. buddy
    buddy July 22, 2013 at 4:53 pm | |

    Mumbles, I apologize for including you in my business with Fred. It’s hard to discern inflection sometimes on the interwebs.

    It seems like I was, appropriately, on the ‘Simple English’ wiki page: http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahasiddha

  25. buddy
    buddy July 22, 2013 at 5:16 pm | |

    I was not necessarily excluding myself from that group…

  26. Fred
    Fred July 22, 2013 at 6:00 pm | |

    Albert Low:

    “Many people feel that if they could change their life circumstances they would be happy. If they could have the right job, more money, a different spouse or no spouse, then all would be la vie en rose. Others believe that they should change themselves: become more tolerant, more loving, have better concentration. The koan says no, everything, as it is, is perfect, but you must stop seeing it as if in a mirror, as if in a dream. ”

    Buddy, your main man says that life is already perfect.

    Tilting at windmills is tilting at an illusion. What do you hope to change.

  27. buddy
    buddy July 22, 2013 at 6:30 pm | |

    He’s talking about letting go of the dream of the self, not of the impetus to cease doing evil and learning to do good. He wouldn’t have praised Shibayama’s dove if he believed that classic Zen justification for apathy.

  28. Mumbles
    Mumbles July 22, 2013 at 6:53 pm | |

    Mark, I do not find that quote in the “Introduction…” link you posted on proprioception, but i’m missing a lot of things tonight that apparently I should be seeing. This, however…

    Now when body and mind are dropped, where I am has no postural and gravitational security while providing perfect postural and gravitational security.

    …and your quote from equlibrioception would fairly make my point that location is not the ultimate issue.

    The axe blade is getting mighty thin. Maybe if you hit me with the handle…

    I, along with some others interested here, especially because you seem like such a genuine good guy (and I know that to be true for sure) want to understand where you are coming from and what you are explaining to us, but it is difficult (for me) to really get it. Come again?

  29. Mark Foote
    Mark Foote July 22, 2013 at 10:58 pm | |

    Well, thanks for being supportive, Mr. Mum; sometimes I really think I’m talking to somebody else, and maybe I am, but I guess I’m mostly talking to myself. And I’m having a good time at it; as usual the notion that I might be talking to someone else serves to keep my imagination engaged at a level that allows the serendipitous to happen. I’m sure that’s why we’re all here (mostly). Sorry to be slow at actually saying something.

    I am saying that it’s possible to exercise the components of the sense of location, by experiencing the sense of motion forward and back, side-to-side, and around to the left and right at the current location of consciousness. If my awareness feels like it’s located in my head, then I look to experience all three motions clearly at the location of my awareness in my head. If it’s in the lower abdomen, ditto. Right away I discover that separating out these motions however briefly can cause my sense of the location of awareness to move, and yet I can experience all three motions at the location of my awareness at once sometimes, and however briefly.

    Proprioception for me involves that shift in the sense of the location of awareness, and the ability to feel throughout my body. That is why there are hands and eyes throughout the body; proprioception moves the location of awareness, so that equalibrioception continues to occur with the experience of the feeling of the part in the whole. A continuity with a sensation like the cessation of activity in falling asleep can ensue through relaxation in the activity of breath. Action can take place from somewhere other than conscious intention while such relaxation is present, seemingly connected with the movement of inhalation or exhalation.

    Beyond all doubt.

  30. Mark Foote
    Mark Foote July 22, 2013 at 11:07 pm | |

    The empty hand grasps the hoe handle
    walking along, I ride the ox
    the ox crosses the wooden bridge
    the bridge is moving, the water is still

    Fuxi

  31. Mumbles
    Mumbles July 23, 2013 at 4:01 am | |

    OK, that was pretty clear and the water is moving through my head a little faster now that you’ve taken the hoe handle to it (was going to say I have a handle on that hoe, but not quite).

    So this is all about catching awareness move from one place to the other in your mind (by mind I include body/anywhere at all). Why is that of interest to you? I suppose it is the gaining of insight, but into what exactly? And/or is this simply a subject that engages you enough to investigate/write about? Fair enough.

    Thanks for having patience with this riderless ox.

  32. Fred
    Fred July 23, 2013 at 5:46 am | |

    “He’s talking about letting go of the dream of the self, not of the impetus to cease doing evil and learning to do good.”

    Evil and good are different in every culture and are part of the conditioning of the self.

    If you are letting go of the dream of the self, what is learning to do good, what is
    good?

  33. Fred
    Fred July 23, 2013 at 6:43 am | |

    The empty hand grasps the hoe handle
    walking along, I ride the ox
    the ox crosses the wooden bridge
    the bridge is moving, the water is still

    http://homepage2.nifty.com/sanbo_zen/cow07_e.html

  34. Mark Foote
    Mark Foote July 23, 2013 at 8:27 am | |

    you are right, Mumbles, something missing. As I sat this morning, I was in pieces, and then something like this occurred to me regarding the bottom of the bucket falling out, the bridge that moves:

    The freedom of mind is sudden, instantaneous, and the freedom of mind in the movement of breath is the difference between “hands and eyes all over the body” and “hands and eyes throughout the body”.

    The stretch is physical; the stretch is in the senses and particularly in equilibrioception, proprioception, and the sense of gravity; look ma no hands, doesn’t so much matter where I’m going with it as the happiness of total immersion in the stretch.

  35. Mark Foote
    Mark Foote July 23, 2013 at 8:29 am | |

    “Though the morning sun has already risen three bamboo lengths,
    he dreams on.”

    zazen zombie, can’t you hear me calling, wa-hoo…

  36. buddy
    buddy July 23, 2013 at 12:49 pm | |

    Fred: ‘Evil and good are different in every culture and are part of the conditioning of the self.’. Any person or culture that believes rape, torture, indiscriminate killing, people starving to death because of unjust economic practices etc etc are acceptable and normal have been conditioned to be, essentially, sociopaths. Any normal person, from small child onward, would intuitively recognize these things as wrong. Let alone a so-called enlightened one.

    I really thought that we’d have some common ground on this topic- that you would agree that the world is a fucked up place and that practice can alleviate that. I thought the disagreement would hinge on whether practice- staring at a wall and getting one’s own house in order- is the only way to do this, and if more direct means- politics, activism etc- are helpful or harmful. Didn’t count on the depth of your Zombie Zen ™

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